Don
Patton on Romans 14
Don
Patton
Initial
Response to Bobby Holmes
After
Bobby Holmes' presentation on Romans 14
Preachers'
Study - Grand Prairie, TX (August 30, 1994)
If I know my heart, I'm not saying these words for effect, or to gain any advantage in any way. But I don't know how brethren who love truth could listen to brother Holmes preach that lesson without loving him. He's a man who loves the truth, and he's courageous, he's devoted, and he was obviously plain in places. And I'm proud to know brethren who have that kind of courage and devotion to the Lord.
He mentioned some people say, "Well, brother Holmes, you just don't love enough." I don't think they were here this morning, if they would say that. They certainly don't know what love is, if that were the case.
I do believe I've been misrepresented. I do believe it was sincere, and conscientious. And I can understand exactly how its done. I related to him that this was one of the issues that I think my father has been able to teach me. He should have been able to teach me a whole lot more than he did, it was my fault that he didn't, but this is one with great difficulty that he did. And I was saying just exactly what brother Holmes has...sometimes as loudly...and I repented of that because it was my father. The same things, not understanding what he was saying. And so I have very great difficulty in getting too upset with brother Holmes because I can see myself right there in exactly the same spot not too long ago. I don't think it would be appropriate, I think it would be a disservice to the truth for me to try an exegesis of Romans 14 at this point, with the limited time that would obviously be available. I would like to do that. And I would request the opportunity perhaps to speak next time, and to try to communicate and do a better job than I did in the lesson which you heard, where I obviously failed miserably.
(Some discussion had as to next date for Patton's exegesis. He spoke September 15, but did not do a thorough exegesis until November 10.)
Let me just refer very briefly, without trying to undo what I just said, that I think it would be a disservice to the truth for me to try, certainly, to present an exegesis of Romans 14 and my view of it. But in the outline from which you quoted, in bold letters, I say, "What we're not saying, (regarding brethren's individual conscientious convictions, we're not saying regarding that) that sincerity makes right. And we're not saying that we should accept or condone error. And it certainly sounded like I was being accused of saying that. And I believe I make...now brother Holmes could make people in error listening to him sound very uncomfortable...I believe I can compete with him on that, and I believe I do. And I think I...I may have run off as many as you have with that kind of teaching...I have been accused of it, I know that. One of the elders recently, there, almost in jest. I think it was mostly, but he said, you sure have run off a lot of people. Wasn't speaking of things relating to this issue, but talking about moral issues...at that point involved the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I think the primary misconception involves the word "receive", and I was talking to briefly to Tom about it before the session. And I don't think in my lesson I said anything about the congregation receiving someone into fellowship when they asked to be received in. I don't think that was discussed. I was talking about how to treat someone who is there, and I believe Bobby and I...our conduct is basically the same.
I did quote under the heading "receive", and I have the Greek term here, and I quoted Thayer's definition, "to receive, to grant access to one's heart, to take into friendship and intercourse. Romans 14:1." That's from Thayer. Now that's what I was talking about using the term. Maybe if I let someone else say it, who disagrees with me on Romans 14, I could communicate better. Harry Osborne is certainly one who disagrees with myself and my father on Romans 14. They had a lengthy exchange. They were involved in producing a book, and the editors...Dad had asked to be relieved since he did disagree with some of the positions taken. And the editors suggested that they have an exchange, a lengthy exchange to try to reconcile their differences, and they did. And I think in a very brotherly way. And in one of the letters that was sent to dad, brother Osborne responds this way, "As you noted in your letter, the disagreement between us is of great magnitude. I am under no delusion that it is otherwise. However, I detect one area where you assumed a difference in practice that does not exist." Now here we find the brother saying he and dad have the same practice, and I believe that's true with brother Holmes at least in 90% of the instances and myself, 99%. This is what is being said here. "You assume a difference in practice which does not exist. You seem to believe I can not exist for any period with a brother who differs from me in a matter of faith. Though I do not use Romans 14 to justify such, I see Bible teaching regarding a longsuffering and forbearing attitude as essential for unity, Ephesians 4:1-3. God says clearly that we are to admonish the disorderly, encourage the fainthearted, support the weak, be longsuffering toward all, I Thessalonians 5:14. Paul's exhortation on restoring in a spirit of gentleness one who was overtaken in a trespass is certainly a principle I teach and practice, Galatians 6:1. In the case of a brother sinning against us personally"...there I have a difference on a...I think there is a textual problem there using....but anyway, that's another issue..."In the case of a brother sinning against us personally, Jesus shows us that we must exhaust every effort to solve the matter before counting him as the Gentile and publican, Matthew 18:15-17. Even the factious man is to receive the first and second admonition, before we refuse him, Titus 3:10. Though I do not know you well, I suspect that our practice toward most erring brethren would be essentially the same. We would both spend many hours studying and pleading with them to repent and come back to God in obedience. We would exhaust every avenue of hope to effect their return before we saw the necessity of marking them and keeping no company with them."
Brother Osborne, of course, didn't get that from Romans 14. I think there are principles similar to that in Romans 14, but the practice is not as implied in this lesson. I endorse 99% of what he was saying. And I commend you for your stand for the truth, and I believe I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you in opposing error. In fact, I think the position that I'm talking about really encourages more of it. If there's an ax over a fellow's head, and he thinks if he doesn't line up now...You are not going to get much of a chance to study with him, usually. Now I don't want to say that in a way that undoes what I just said, but, obviously, if I've got my arm around him while I'm talking to him, and he doesn't think I'm ready to shoot him, I can do a better job of teaching him. And I will do...I'm more prone to do it. And I'm more prone to get in his face and say, look this can't be right. You're wrong. You're going to be lost, You're going to hell. You're lying about it...you're...and I can...I think I can do a better job. But, that's as much as I want to say about that part of it. I'm certain that's not what you got from what was heard...I'm certain brother Holmes' believed it, and I understand his misunderstanding, because I've done it. And it took probably half a dozen sessions with dad, several hours at a time, over a period of several years, before it finally dawned on me what I was saying. And I can't really get upset when somebody else walks in the same tracks. I hope, and I will look forward to being able to try to do a good job with what's coming.
But let me, let me mention one story that I think will illustrate. As I mentioned, exegesis is the solution to the problem. That we want to do. Illustrations don't prove anything, I'm not trying to say that. But sometimes illustrations can help us communicate, that's all we're trying to do here. Let me tell a story that I think speaks to the point. And while we heard many times longsuffering is not the issue, I disagree with that, I think it is. And of course that is what I stated in my outline. This is what we are saying, and that's what I listed.
I was preaching in Clarksville, TN. And Herschel Patton, some of you know, was in Lawrenceburg, TN. If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the elders, possibly a deacon, that had a daughter that married a young fellow, a member of a very conservative Christian church in the area. And he and his in-laws didn't get along well at all, they just...I mean they really clashed. And I suspect that from what Herschel said...I didn't have any first hand information...both of them didn't behave themselves very well, both sides. But in any case, the young couple decided to leave Lawrenceburg, and they came to Clarksville, where I was preaching. He wanted to go to the Christian church of course, and he went. It was about an average Christian church which was just far too liberal for him, he just couldn't stomach it. He didn't ask to be received as a member, but he just asked if he could sit on the back seat and listen. And he did. I tried to talk with him and boy it was just like stoking a fire. You could see the coals begin to flame, and every time you tried it didn't work at all. His attitude was ugly, but he knew he didn't belong over there with the other Christian church. And so, he wanted to sit and listen, so he did. And I guess three or four times over a period of several months I tried to initiate some kind of discussion and there was no way. And I just kinda forgot about him almost, in an effort to try to reach him, because we had tried so many times. And after he had been there just over a year, we were having some big discussions...I mean real conflicts with some of the very liberal groups in the area...there were two. And we had taught...converted...Oh about 40 from those two churches, out of liberalism. And they didn't like it. And so I had a series of lessons that I did on the issues, and boy I was letting them have it. Didn't ever enter my mind that I was hitting him. That these were issues,...I probably should have thought of that...but I didn't. And at the end of that series, here he comes marching down the aisle, and he said, I've been wrong. Well, it just shocked the daylights out of all of us, his wife included. He said, we have a limited missionary society...we don't believe in supporting benevolent institutions, just like you. We do support the college. We do have cooperative arrangements among churches that I see are unscriptural, and I just learned a lot, and I want to confess my sin. Of course, he had the same view of the restoration movement, the concept of the church, the plan of salvation, and preached and taught it just as strong as we do. I have some questions on instrumental music. I see the principles of authority that you've taught, that I haven't appreciated like I should have before. But I see some arguments that appear to me to authorize it...from the rest of this experience I'm probably wrong...I need to study it with you...but I see I'm wrong, and I don't belong with that other group. And I want to confess every sin that I know, and I want to set up a study with you to learn as much as I can about this.
Well, I thought that was just wonderful. And in fact, we set up a study for the following Tuesday. There were some brethren there, though, who had a different view of that. They just...well they had a (unintelligible word) business meeting, they got about a third of the members together that Sunday night, decided that they were going to kick him out. And they went over to his house, and told him he was unacceptable, they would have nothing to do with him, and hoped he didn't come back. His wife called me in tears. And I just...felt like Homer Hailey who I studied under for four years, and I disagree with completely on the marriage issue. But I recall his statement, you know, he said, "You know sometimes, Don, if the Lord would let me get a two by four after some brethren, I could straighten them out." And you feel that. What in the world were they thinking. But I went over there and talked with him till about 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning, trying to explain that I felt the brethren were not behaving as they should. However, that's the way they feel, and I mean they...they believe that. And I said the best thing you and I need to do is get our heads together and study, quickly. And so we studied some that night, we studied Tuesday night. Now the fellow knew arguments, I mean he was...there was not a brother in that congregation that could have come close to answering him, he would have chopped them all up little bitty...of course, he was wrong. But he had some basis for his conviction, he really thought...I mean he had heard this, and he had studied. And we studied Tuesday night, and we...after church Wednesday night...he didn't go, but I went after services, and we studied until about 12 o'clock. Saturday night, every night that week. Sunday morning he came forward, and made his confession on instrumental music, that he was convinced now that that was wrong. Well...and by the way he's preaching up in the Tennessee area now, and doing a good job.
I think we see the difference in the two positions. Not that Bobby is like the brethren there. I don't think he would do that. But I think Romans 14 is talking to those brethren, and saying don't do that. And I think Bobby and I basically do the same thing. If he's got somebody in the congregation like that...now when they come to be accepted that introduces some extra issues, and I don't think I addressed that...But if they are already there, and a question comes up, and they are not sure and they want to know, and they are studying, and they are conscientious, I know what Bobby will do. He's not going to run them out, he's going to sit down there and study with them.
And as brother Osborne says, correcting my father he thought, our practices are the same. And I think mine's more consistent with my teaching. I don't think your practice, which I condone, is as consistent with your teaching as it should be. I think you, if it were applied consistently, you would find virtually every one of us here a false teacher. I would have to find you a false teacher in...according to your definition...in that you think its alright for a wife to desert her husband if she thinks she is being mistreated. I disagree there, I think that's wrong. I think we ought to study on it. I'm concerned for your soul, in encouraging that kind of thing, and...but I think the solution between you and me there we need to get our heads together and study. And I think if you talk to any of us long enough you'd find something like that. That doesn't mean I'm going to encourage you in it. I don't encourage these evolutionists out here, I think I torment them. But I look at that issue on that chart like the others, I'm going to torment them while I'm trying to bring them to heaven, and I...if we spend time to look at Romans 14, I think there is a consistent position that requires that. And I believe the position presented has some gross inconsistencies that I'd like for us to think about.
Anyway, maybe that will introduce our study for next time. And I understand the misunderstanding. That doesn't help it any. I think you have slanderously misrepresented, very conscientiously. I'm hoping and praying that we can love each other enough to sit down and resolve that matter.
Tape transcribed by Stan Cox